Mainstream Atheists Can Go Fuck Themselves – Im Done With This Culture Of Percieved Enlightenment

A week or so ago, I did a couple entries surrounding a problem that I have with mainstream Atheistic culture. To make a long story short, the entirety of the disagreement circulated around the word Agnostic.

It started some weeks ago, when I stated something that I always thought to be true, that is, “Agnostic” is its own line of thinking. But I was “corrected” by a number of Atheists, who said that it was only half of the equation. Though this  didn’t really make sense, I  at first, agreed and moved on.

But later on, I found myself looking up the word again, for some reason. And as defined, frankly, I realized that Agnosticism IS in reality, a position that one could theoretically take, without fear of being “Illogical”, “Unreasonable” or “Irrational”. Yes, acceptance of this, does go against written language (how the terms are defined). But as far as I am concerned, if you have a well thought out reason for adopting the position, why does it matter that it does not conform to the English language?

Most vocal people in the Atheist community will proudly tell you of how they threw out their faith and theism, for the reasonable, rational and logical explanations of Atheism. Which is great. The problem is, I am starting to realize now, that the only thing that seems to have changed for many, is the ideology.

Let me explain.

When you are a theist of any banner, you tend to think within the confines of your knowledge of your brand of theism. I say it that way, because as any Atheist online in the forum community can relate, not all theists necessarily have a good grasp on the scriptures that are supposed to be the centerpiece of their lives.

But in any case, people of this background, tend to look at everything around them though that lens. And information that is presented from differing prospectives, tends to be weighed (and more often then not, dismissed), because of this “theistic” view on reality.

Now, enter Atheistic ideology.

The person, though education, pushes out the ideologies of theism, with the ideologies of Atheism. To be more clear, Atheistic ideologies, may not be the best way to describe these things. But let me try my best, with the vocabulary I have to work with.

People of Atheistic backgrounds, tend to end up in that place, because of education. An understanding of sciences and biology (among many other things), does a lot to reduce (and eliminate) the “necessity” of a deity, in the creation AND maintenance of life, the planet, the universe and really, everything. And scientific knowledge also works wonders in the debunking of claims found in various religious texts. And further more, upon embracing critical thought processes, one will start to criticize the conclusions that they had previously never given a second thought to, pushing out more ideological trash.
Which is a good thing.

BUT, it seems to me that many just get rid of the contents of the ideology.

Lets say that there is a crappy restaurant somewhere. It was built miles from any customers, and its layout makes its everyday operation, difficult. So as a result of these setbacks, the owner closes the business,  and removes everything that was associated with his business from the building.
Now another restaurateur comes along, and purchases the property, with the intent of setting up shop. He will make his own little eatery in the very same spot.

You see where this is going, right?

Upon opening for business, he encounters the exact same problems as were faced by the previous owner. Their location is not optimal, and the customers they do get, are hard to serve, due to the terrible layout of the facility. But this owner is smart.

Though he had not foreseen this problem, he solves it.

He closes his business, demolishes the old facility , and builds a replacement in a location that is both closer to his desired clientèle,  and more suitable to his day to day operations. As a result, he makes more money, as his customers can access his services more easily, and he can serve them easier.

In my line of thinking, theism is the previous business owner. Though people told him that he was crazy for continuing to man this sinking ship of a restaurant, he could not see it. From his point of view, his business was doing fine.

Now, enter Atheism.

In this situation, the addition of scientific knowledge to the mind, can be equated to those little signs that the restaurant is hitting the rocks, but that the owner chooses to ignore or explain away. The more signs of trouble, the harder it is to cling to your previous conclusions (A god may not be necessary . . . / well, this place may be in trouble).

Until the restaurateur can explain away the signs of trouble no longer, and has to accept  that he was wrong, and that the business as it stands, is not viable. And the theist, has to accept  that what they previously concluded is not correct.

Now we both know how this played out before. The new restaurateur trashed the useless mold, replacing it with one that was more fitting to his needs. But lets say the new owner (or the same owner, whatever works for you), merely changes the location.

The location is a dead end, so he demolishes it, and rebuilds in a better area. BUT, he rebuilds according to the exact same blueprint of the old restaurant. So he has more access to customers, but he is still paralyzed in serving them, by the facilities he is in.

This is how I am starting to view a great many (perhaps a majority) of Atheistic mindsets. They have dropped the irrational and false conclusions of theism, and adopted the true and verifiable conclusions of science. But instead of being open minded to many concepts, various aspects of “knowledge” become the new barriers, walls.

One of the most clear examples of this that I can think of, is the way that most Atheists view the word “Agnostic”. To them, it is only half of the picture. Theist entertains that  you conclude that SOMETHING exists, Atheist suggests that you entertain that nothing exists. Agnostic Atheist (me) means that though you are inclined to think that there is nothing existent, the window is open.

An Agnostic, is someone that does not know the answer either way, but does not want to commit to either direction.
If they said that a deity likely does not exist, then they can be seen as Agnostic ATHEIST. If they say that there IS something, but that is is unknowable, then we can call them an Agnostic THEIST.  But if they remain neutral, I do not see any problem.

I got some flack from members of the Atheistic community, for making the claim that an Agnostic stance is more “logical” then an Militant Atheistic stance. My reasoning was that, Agnostics (as well as Agnostic Atheists) work on the basis of a deity being unknowable. Agnostic Atheists presume that there is nothing TO know, but one can not prove it. Agnostics just, do not know.
Where as, militant Atheists work on the basis that lack of evidence means lack of a deity. Basically the idea that is, if there is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent chance of anything existing, why not just say “THERE IS NOTHING!!” and be done with it.

Well, because strong theists look at the very same evidence, and come up with the very same conclusions, only reversed. AND if you want to remain credible while telling theists that they are wrong in their solid mindsets based around non-evidence , you can not do the same thing yourself.

Agnostics simply say that they do not know the answer. Militant Atheists choose an answer, despite no solid supporting evidence.  Call it a “fallacy” all you want, its still strong theism in reverse.

We often (and rightfully!), give theists grief for viewing things though “theistic” glasses. We mock and ridicule them for not being able to see past the bible, in the processing of any information. But it strikes me that many of us Atheists do the very same thing. Especially when it comes to these definitions and labels.

You know, Atheist is this, Agnostic is that, so there is no middle ground! Your either one or the other!

And yet, you have people like Neil Degrasse Tyson and Darwin. Both have professed themselves as Agnostics.

In the case of Darwin, many use the same frame of mind that I have identified above, to place him as an Agnostic ATHEIST. Its kind of funny. Because even if he were inclined to disagree, he can’t, CAUSE HE’S DEAD. But here is a quote of his:

“I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally … an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind.”- Charles Darwin

Then there is Neil Degrasse Tyson. Unfortunately for the Atheist community, he is not only still alive, but has stated AND explained his views publicly. He has even edited his own wikipedia page, only to be “corrected” again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

And in citing him as an example, I have found myself “corrected” as well. Or when presented with the above video “evidence” to back up my argument, many ignore. Some claim that he must not understand entirely what he is saying (even though I think he understands  perfectly, given the video).
And one person, even went as far as to calling the whole big think explanation, a cop out. That Neil used the term “Agnostic” because it was better for his career (because Atheist scientists are SO controversial!). This was said, in an exchange where they told ME how illogical I WAS.

And today, there was a conversation between them and a theist. The theist was trying to argue that prayer is not ALWAYS unproductive, being that some people pray and then take action to help whatever the cause is. I noted that as a good thing, but it did not prove prayer was  productive. If anything, it made it seem that the said people may have viewed prayer in more of a “positive thinking” sort of way. Or that they didn’t understand the concept (when you pray, you either ask “god” for help, or you ask “god” to help whomever).

In any case, I was forced to note that I could not conclusively say that prayer is unproductive. This is not something that I am ashamed to admit to, or something that I am FORCED to concede. It is just, the truth. I can not prove it either way, and neither can anyone else. I guess one could say that I view it in an Agnostic Atheist fashion.

But, in the realm of rational thought according to mainstream Atheists (as I call them), this is a “fallacy”. Even if it is a position aquired by viewing and critically examining what little “evidence” I have at my disposal, it is silly. Hell,  even if our arguments AGAINST prayer (and a deity, for that matter) are shared, I am still the one with a fallacy. Therefore (apparently), nothing I say is of any intellectual significance.

While these disagreements were with but a fraction of all those in the community of Atheism, I have looked around and read enough material, to know that this is not just a small minority of all Atheists. These people, make up a majority of (at least) online Atheists. And frankly, I am somewhat embarrassed to have  myself attached to such a group.

Its for this reason, that I have decided that from this point on, I will refer to myself as a non-theist. Yes, I am still “technically” the Agnostic Atheist I was since my early teen years. But I do not want myself lumped in with the rest of the herd, when I identify my views.

Many will not care. But  any Agnostics (or Atheists, on this side of the fence) will understand. Those with a sour taste in their mouth after dealing with members of the other group, will not automatically associate me,with those ideals.

The title to this post may be abrasive. But at the moment, that is how I am feeling.

3 thoughts on “Mainstream Atheists Can Go Fuck Themselves – Im Done With This Culture Of Percieved Enlightenment

  1. By all the (probably non existent) gods, you’ve done a marvellous job there in your explanation of the difference in views. Your anger sharpens the skill of your quill perhaps. I’m also pleased to find out what I actually am from it. I’m in your boat. I hope one of us has a paddle should a giant plug be pulled out. Great post. I always find you writing interesting stuff. – sonmicloud.

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  2. A little followup to this post . . .

    It was made out of deep frustration, and perceived persecution from the community that I was once a proud member of. An even bigger slap to the face, considering that my questioning of the assertions of Atheism came about as yet another step up in my education in life.

    Not exactly education as in school. But more, a progression to a new level. I started at the bottom, with my loose religious views. The next step up was into atheism. Actually, it was more like stepping OUT OF theism into, nowhere. Many would call it “atheism” right off the hop, but since I found the philosophy BEFORE I found the term, I don’t use the term in that way. Anyone who has any respect for the journey many take to atheism, should be deeply offended by having it cheapened to encompassing literally EVERYTHING. How can you take a group seriously, that insists on even labeling the couch I sit as “atheist”?

    Anyway, the goal of a true freethinking skeptic should be to always be evaluating, reassessing. Which is where I begun having issues with many of my fellow atheists.
    One of the reasons why I had built up the anger that made this (and a few following) posts so bitter, was my irritation that the group. A group that publicly prides itself with its logical thinking, was dismissing me without any thought. As if stepping into atheism was enough. No further thought required. But it was mostly because I was labeled as (more or less) a moron (sometimes even a theist!), whilst further conversation had these people patting one another on the back and praising their brilliance.
    Theists that do it are deluded fools. But atheists that do it, are brilliant.
    But I was used to “losing” arguments. What drove me out of the nu-atheist conversation, was when my conversations became censored. Not me being deleted, but others posts vanishing after they blocked me.

    Not only could they not come up with a well thought argument, but they also (apparently) could not stand to look at it.
    I have seen that tactic before. But always from theists. Fools of unquestioning delusion. The fact that those of “logic” could not just move on and agree to disagree, drove me over.

    I not only unfriended the person involved, but left all of the groups I was previously a member of.

    Many months have since passed. With it, has much of my anger. But I still feel the same way about the group (atheism), and at some point will upload a detailed “letter” to the atheist community.
    Written from a calm prospective, it will cover many aspects of the community that Are not just illogical, but also detrimental to the secular community as a whole (as well as my new chosen ” stance”, which is really, nowhere in particular).

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  3. A well written article to be sure.
    From Atheist to Theist and the varying degrees in between, we are still talking about putting a label on the uniquely human internal struggle with completely internal thoughts feelings and beliefs.

    To my way of thinking I find it hard to classify myself as anything but a Christian. I am fully aware of the power of science to almost completely explain every aspect of the space-time in which we exist up to and even including the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics. I am a proponent of string theory with an eye toward a milti-brane underlying structure to the universe(s) but still find it entirely within my capacity to reason that Jesus Christ was who he said he was and did what he was widely reported to have done. It is enough for me to recognize that ultimate knowledge will never be available to the human intellect as it exists upon Planet Earth. I am convinced that there is a higher plane of existence that is offered only to those who _believe_. It is easy-peasy. No Fuss – No Muss.

    I do not need to disprove principles of evolution nor will theoretical physics ever sway me from my faith in inconceivable greatness. I appreciate your wanting to distance yourself from the staunch atheists and find that you have done so admirably. However before painting all people professing to hold religious ideologies with the broad brush of Theists. Perhaps we can establish a category called enlightened human beings living in a culture of peaceful coexistence.
    Cheers!

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